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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
143
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Posted - 2016.08.31 06:58:02 -
[1] - Quote
Who in their mother loving right mind would ever siege their Rorqual in a belt no matter what boosts it gave? Now if they removed the 5 minute siege effect from the industrial array then a case could be made because they you could hope to align or jump out to save your investment leaving the barges behind, similar to every ratting carrier in existence who would sooner jump than wait for their fighters to return.
You cannot equivalent the risk of flying a command ship/carrier/super/titan into a fleet fight with links active to that of a Rorqual providing bonuses to a near defenseless mining fleet. Closest to any is a triaged FAX, but even they dont need to be in triage to provide links.
You want risk, you accomplish that by having them in the belt at all. No need to spoon feed expensive killmails to the mindless masses who cant even think to set up a log off trap half the time by forcing such an investment to stay on grid in 5 minute intervals just to provide boosts. |
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
143
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Posted - 2016.08.31 07:08:21 -
[2] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Nasar Vyron wrote: Now if they removed the 5 minute siege effect from the industrial array then a case could be made because they you could hope to align or jump out to save your investment leaving the barges behind, similar to every ratting carrier in existence who would sooner jump than wait for their fighters to return.
Nah, they'd ALL be in warp before anything could possibly happen to them. Seen it too many times before.
Where's the problem with that? You missed on your first try. Jump a few gates out to the system their eyes are in, pause and crash gate and return. Don't catch him again? Leave a ship behind and log it out in the mining anom/belt you scanned it in. Rest of the fleet leaves and goes 1 jump past eyes. Wait a few minutes, log that toon in, tackle them then your fleet rushes back.
Don't expect everything to go your way easily, or go your way on your first attempt. EDIT: or go your way at all TBQH
Nothing in this game should be easy, and that includes catching and slaughtering a mining fleet and it's boosts. |
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
148
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Posted - 2016.09.02 22:29:49 -
[3] - Quote
Without going into a ton of detail which would be wasted deep in a thread.
Why not add a new module called "Industrial Relay" which can be fit to any industrial boost ship (porpoise/orca/rorqual) and allow for relaying of industrial boosts from any Rorqual with an active Industrial Core. At the same time go ahead and remove the ability to boost from within a POS shield and force break tether like all other boosts. Also while we're at it reduce the Industrial Core cycle time to 1 minute and the fuel requirement accordingly.
With this you allow for boosting pilots to avoid sitting directly in warpable anoms/belts for 5 minute intervals; at the same time attaching the burst effect to mobile ships which can move with the mining fleet through large belts without having to turn off the industrial core, slowboat/warp out and back to a new location, and repeat. All this while still leaving enough vulnerability to be caught, but not overly-so for a non-combat activity.
FYI-I'm not exactly changing my stance on my previous post. I'm still against the requirement of the Industrial Core for providing boosts. However, if use of the Industrial Core allowed for the bonus of being able to position anywhere in system and relaying those boosts through other ships with an active Relay Module then I can see a balance being obtained. |
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
148
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Posted - 2016.09.03 03:47:35 -
[4] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: the industrial core is no longer needed you only need it for MAX boosts if you are willing to take that extra risk
Quote:T1 Industrial Core (while active)
+25% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst strength
+100% bonus to Mining Foreman and Shield Command Burst Area of Effect Range
T2 Industrial Core (while active)
+30% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst strength
+200% bonus to Mining Foreman and Shield Command Burst Area of Effect Range
Say what?
You would be better off using an orca for the risk/reward if you didn't use the core... an extra 10% from level 5 between the two doesn't warrant fielding it in the slightest for base bonuses. Should we see all command ships/carriers/FAX/supers/titans siege to provide their boosts? Of course not, why are we even discussing this? These aren't even combat bonuses being given. Yet you want it to carry more risk than to those boosting in active combat. |
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
148
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Posted - 2016.09.03 04:02:12 -
[5] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: considering you can make yourself invuln until your support show up i wouldn't say its more risk.... that is unless you have no intention of defending yourself then i can see your issue. but if that is the case go ahead and use the porpus
as for "but but the mean combat guys dun have to" the combat boosts don't give a huge increase to the amount of isk you are getting the mining one does
I honestly ask myself every time I read something from you if we even play the same game. The invulnerability, which is likely 1 cycle burnout like the EDC, is 5 minutes. Unless you have a standing fleet, that's not going to save anyone, it just delays the inevitable. And in what day and age we play this game in are people willing to stand around waiting for you to possibly be jumped? Even if they will respond unless they are flying nano-faggotry ships already close by they will not be able to respond without cyno and titan bridge within 5 minutes.
Now I ask myself, do I know anyone willing to stay on standby with a titan to save a mining fleet. Do I know enough people who are willing to stay logged in and fly my location or the titans (which is likely in blue space, so not much to hunt) just to save me from being caught by people jumping in via a WH which eluded my eyes to prevent the situation. The answer to all is no.
This is not the game we play or have ever played. This is a grand image of what this game could be like if EVE was life and not a game. We must deal with the reality within the game we play, which is Invulnerability is a gimmicky joke which doesn't even belong in EVE. And the idea of having to put a PvE booster at more risk than those which are combat oriented is outrageous. |
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
148
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Posted - 2016.09.03 04:11:26 -
[6] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:yet regularly when i attack mining fleets in provie they have support show up in under 60 seconds. sorry if the people you fly with can't be bothered sounds like you need to find some one better to mine for
You expect all of null to be like Provi... How very cute. Remember how I said about a grand image of what the game could be like? You are kinda flying in an area most resembling that, a microcosm if you would, which does not in any way represent the rest of null.
I'm going to end this here tho with you before it derails. |
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
152
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Posted - 2016.09.11 17:31:38 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: ...
Some of you have expressed concern that the "Mining Equipment Preservation" burst isn't valuable enough. I'll start out by saying that not every link needs to be of equal power and that the consolidation of cycle time and cap use into one link is a big buff even if the new 3rd link isn't something you'll always use. However we are interested in hearing from you about what kinds of bonuses you think would be interesting as a replacement for the Mining Equipment Preservation effect. We'll give consideration to your ideas and see if a better option comes up.
...
Like I said above, we're working hard on the next dev blog (focusing on the Mining Foreman gameplay role and the Porpoise/Orca/Rorqual) and we hope to get that out to you all soon. Thanks everyone for the continued feedback!
-Mining Drone speed/yield - I'm taking this idea off the rigs, we have drone yield rigs so at some point a team at CCP felt this was a light weight enough to be balanced. I personally favor this idea because I see it being far easier to balance this as there are no hull bonuses (on barges/exhumers) which could amplify this effect and it also works to restore some of what was lost with the removal of the passive yield bonus from MD.
Thanks for the update Fozzie! I'm glad to see you communicating with us on this one. |
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
152
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Posted - 2016.09.15 23:58:51 -
[8] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:if you have managed to get a neutral through your space into your mining system and into your belt before warping/jumping you already messed up...
Lets talk nullification and wormholes. Then we'll talk about being able to lock down a system or set of systems such that a 5 minute siege and response time becomes viable outside of your little world down in Provi.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Yes it will be harder for small corps but thats not a bad thing. in a game built around working together numbers are everything.
Nearly every patch since at least Phoebe CCP has been taking actions to favor small gang/groups within their game. This one directly hurts the solo/small group industrial crowd who were using these boosts for non-combat activities. Many cases introducing new players to the need to form groups and connections within EVE to accomplish greater things.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:I didn't say mine afk i said boost. Just because you have always gotten the reward of these large boosts does not mean you are entitled to them. The fact that they have existed in such a state for so long is the issue.
Nobody with a sense of balance and fair play is complaining about the need to risk these assets. Just the imbalance between the reward and the risk involved. Grid wide boosts, return of hidden belts, as well as the removal of the siege effect from the industrial core would all work to balance out the added risk for these rewards.
Another person put it best when comparing the static isk income of ratting to that of the indirect value obtained via mining. As well as the value of said assets put at risk to obtain it. This is another problem we should likely be discussing.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:I also enjoy how you label me in ways to try and dismiss what i say as if it some how devalues it. if you must know i lead a new player alliance. in that alliance most people mine in either HS or NS based on the players comfort level with a bit of gas from WH.
Nobody has to dismiss of devalue what you say. It already has such little value through your lack of experience and knowledge it handles that on it's own. While I applaud you in leading new players as I have done, you're own views when it comes to balance and fair play are misguided and skewed by your small view of the game.
Not every group, even larger ones, have players willing to sit on their hands or keep a close range to mining fleets or bridge titans on the off chance they need help. In fact the larger the alliance the less a chance of getting a response fleet to save you. You possibly may see a response fleet form to kill them as they try to escape, but rescue? Not likely.
The simple reason is this, responding to a threat already exists allows you to form proper numbers and ship types to handle the situation. Prior to being jumped on your standing defense fleet will only consist of those willing to do that - stand around, meaning the fleet that jumps on you may outnumber you from the get go. If your standing fleet is doing their own roaming to keep active then they are already dedicated to a ship type to respond with the limited window to save you and unlikely to pick up enough players in a proper composition to take on your attackers.
This is why expecting response fleets for each mining operation is unreasonable and will never happen without proper reward for either party both standing fleet and miners (whose income is already far less than that of a casual ratter by player)
PS- there's a reason I stopped posting a while back. You really aren't worth arguing with because you talk in circles and refuse to look at anything from any standpoint than your own. Try it some time, you might find people will hate you less. |
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